tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post3935991577036684093..comments2023-09-08T12:41:00.013+03:00Comments on Ακρίτας της Μακεδονίας: Παρέμβαση του καθηγητή Χ. Δ. Κατσέτου σχετικά με την επιστολή των Παμμακεδονικών Ενώσεων Υφηλίου στον Δρ Ευάγγελο Κωφό με θέμα τις θέσεις του για την επίλυση της διαφοράς της ονομασίας της ΠΓΔΜ μεταξύ Αθηνών και ΣκοπίωνAkritashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05564034383394082659noreply@blogger.comBlogger348125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-73660940070900718192010-12-25T03:55:10.673+02:002010-12-25T03:55:10.673+02:00PART 2:
What my mother thought of those in Utah? ...PART 2:<br /><br />What my mother thought of those in Utah? Well, she said that they were Slavs and some she told them after hearing their stories "You were once Greeks!"<br /><br />What do I think? I will tell you a story: I once saw an interview with the proudest of Italians, Sophia Loren. At the end of the interview reporter Barbara Walters asked her if she felt more Italian or Χρήστος Καράτζιος MD, Παμμακεδονική Ένωση Καναδάnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-55569333397176890832010-12-25T03:30:58.072+02:002010-12-25T03:30:58.072+02:00Dear Professor Danforth,
In haste before the Chri...Dear Professor Danforth,<br /><br />In haste before the Christmas holiday:<br /><br />My mother's cousins WERE GREEK before they were taken/abducted over the Iron Curtain where they were taught that they were not Greek. They did NOT learn that they were "Macedonians" from their Macedonian Greek parents. Let's make this clear.<br /><br />However, they NOW think that they were Χρήστος Καράτζιος MD, Παμμακεδονική Ένωση Καναδάnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-14304395741098459152010-12-24T21:52:20.277+02:002010-12-24T21:52:20.277+02:00Mr. Katsetos:
What I said to your mother in Utah ...Mr. Katsetos:<br /><br />What I said to your mother in Utah was that her story was not “oli tin alithia” ie “all of the truth” or “the whole truth.” Excuse me if I did not express this correctly in Greek. Your mother’s story is just as true as the story of individuals who have a Macedonian identity and who were mistreated by the Greek government. But neither individual story is the “whole story,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-80106339469996680782010-12-23T01:30:21.788+02:002010-12-23T01:30:21.788+02:00Dear Professor danforth,
I forgot to mention the ...Dear Professor danforth,<br /><br />I forgot to mention the following:<br /><br />In Utah last year, people at the conference on "Macedonian" Issues COULD NOT FATHOM that my mother was actually Greek. They would come up to her and whisper: "Look at me in the eyes...WE understand each other. Speak to me in nashi - forget about the Greeks who brought you here."<br /><br />On Χρήστος Καράτζιος MD, Παμμακεδονική Ένωση Καναδάnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-1400862916656778252010-12-23T00:38:07.012+02:002010-12-23T00:38:07.012+02:00Dear Professor Danforth,
You wrote:
"I do n...Dear Professor Danforth,<br /><br />You wrote:<br /><br />"I do not think that your mother’s story is “untrue.” I do think, however, that ideologically motivated education (what you might call “brainwashing”) occurred on both sides. I suspect that your mother’s cousins developed a Macedonian national identity in the same way that your mother developed a Greek national identity."<br /><Χρήστος Καράτζιος MD, Παμμακεδονική Ένωση Καναδάnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-28426179380808155552010-12-23T00:06:31.216+02:002010-12-23T00:06:31.216+02:00Bruce Wayne @ Danforth:
"Prospathisa noriter...Bruce Wayne @ Danforth:<br /><br />"Prospathisa noritera na exigiso yiati den eimai metamodernistis."<br /><br />Out of curiosity, has Martin Bernal ever accepted that he is a "po-mo"?<br /><br />What is your stance of the struggle that Mary Lefkowitz has given for the last two decades?<br /><br />In case we don't speak until Xmass ... I wish you «καλά Χριστούγεννα, καλή Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-7302655582464095382010-12-22T20:29:07.550+02:002010-12-22T20:29:07.550+02:00Bruce Wayne @ Danforth#2:
AD Smith in page 43 of ...Bruce Wayne @ Danforth#2:<br /><br />AD Smith in page 43 of "The nation in history: historiographical debates about ethnicity and nationalism"<br /><br />http://books.google.com/books?id=mXhxE1lgmhEC&pg=PA43&dq=kitromilides+modern+greeks&hl=el&ei=3joSTYyONcrvsgaRv5yBDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-80890438780496353642010-12-22T20:28:04.013+02:002010-12-22T20:28:04.013+02:00Bruce Wayne@Danforth#1:
1) "Sas zito signomi...Bruce Wayne@Danforth#1:<br /><br />1) "Sas zito signomi pou den prolavaino na grapho oles mou tis paratiriseis sto list afto sta Ellinika"<br /><br />You don't have to apologize for that pr. Danforth. We're all impressed from your competence in Modern Greek, but I'm sure that it is faster for you to write in your mother tongue, which we understand.<br /><br />2) " “Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-75682050116783699412010-12-22T02:54:21.471+02:002010-12-22T02:54:21.471+02:00In reply to Mr. Karatzios:
It is well known that...In reply to Mr. Karatzios: <br /><br />It is well known that the term “SlavoMacedonian” was used by the Greek Communist Party during and after the civil war. It was applied by the leadership of the KKE to some of the refugees who left Greece. I am confident that the majority people it was applied to at the time preferred it to the term “Greek.” It is also true that when people whom the KKE Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-2889939969863021992010-12-22T02:53:44.035+02:002010-12-22T02:53:44.035+02:00To the person who uses the pseudonym Bruce Wayne:
...To the person who uses the pseudonym Bruce Wayne:<br /><br />I object to referring to some processes of nation formation as “irrational and unhealthy.” “Unhealthy” is a medical term and has no place in such a discussion. If you are interested in discussing which nationalist versions of history are more accurate than others, that is a reasonable topic for discussion. As I have repeatedly stated, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-39462280031537983122010-12-21T23:07:42.783+02:002010-12-21T23:07:42.783+02:00Pr Danforth quoted....
It is up to me as an anthr...Pr Danforth quoted.... <br /><i>It is up to me as an anthropologist to use terms that they use to define themselves.</i><br /><br />This is the problem of your writing Professor. You use <b>“your” technical jargon</b>, you lay implicit claim to the development of a scientific method of analyzing <b>“ethnical identities”</b> which you clearly believe that <b>it has greater validity from other Akritashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05564034383394082659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-31618334215073722412010-12-21T22:09:36.082+02:002010-12-21T22:09:36.082+02:00Dear Prof. Danforth,
You wrote:
"The soluti...Dear Prof. Danforth,<br /><br />You wrote:<br /><br />"The solution you propose (Slavomacedonians and Macedonian Greeks) will not work because Macedonians reject Slavomacedonian as a term for their national identity."<br /><br />They reject this now because they have been "taught collectively" to do so – especially recently. They didn't seem bothered by it just a few Χρήστος Καράτζιος MD, Παμμακεδονική Ένωση Καναδάnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-45660268433325633682010-12-21T10:15:34.787+02:002010-12-21T10:15:34.787+02:00Bruce Wayne @ Danforth#2:
"Appropriate terms...Bruce Wayne @ Danforth#2:<br /><br />"Appropriate terms for this process include “socialization” and “nation formation."<br /><br />With all due respect prof. Danforth, but the above terms have nothing to do with the "deprivation of the individual's capacity to distinguish Confabulation from Reality by the suppression of rational & critical thought" (since you don'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-436032585765436282010-12-21T03:41:00.310+02:002010-12-21T03:41:00.310+02:00Bruce Wayne @ Danforth:
"As an example of “r...Bruce Wayne @ Danforth:<br /><br />"As an example of “rude,” “inflammatory,” and “uncivil behavior” "<br /><br />Prof. Danforth,<br /><br />Since your competence in modern Greek is truly remarkable, I suppose that you have already heard the modern Greek proverb «λέω τα σύκα σύκα και τη σκάφη σκάφη».<br /><br />It dates form the ancient times actually. We first find it in Aristophanes Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-395682205661946402010-12-20T23:49:19.086+02:002010-12-20T23:49:19.086+02:00The New York Times (11/30/10) had an interesting o...The New York Times (11/30/10) had an interesting op ed piece entitled “Where Anonymity Breeds Contempt” that is very relevant to this discussion. The author, Julie Zhuo, presents information about “the online disinhibition effect” that occurs when people contribute anonymously to discussion lists and blogs. She states that people who are able to remain anonymous engage in more “uncivil behavior”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-11237546488065548212010-12-20T22:30:48.852+02:002010-12-20T22:30:48.852+02:00Bruce Wayne>
Since Alex brought up Krste Misir...Bruce Wayne><br /><br />Since Alex brought up Krste Misirkov, I'd like to clarify something.<br /><br />Pr. Danforth said much earlier that Misirkov's "uncertainties" & "ambiguity" are natural for the "beginning of a nation".<br /><br />Misirkov actually wasn't so "uncertain".<br /><br />His "On Macedonian Matters" and his "Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-74925078966290425492010-12-20T17:43:00.144+02:002010-12-20T17:43:00.144+02:00(2nd part)
- "I became involved in the issu...(2nd part)<br /><br /><b> - "I became involved in the issue in 1988, when I met a group of people in Melbourne who already had a very clear sense of themselves as Macedonians and not Greeks."</b><br /><br />How did you meet? And who said that we claim that they view themselves as Greeks?<br /><br /><br /><br /><b> - "The solution you propose (Slavomacedonians and Macedonian Greeks)Alex Fotopoulosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-69907533727357005962010-12-20T17:38:08.956+02:002010-12-20T17:38:08.956+02:00(1st part)
Mr Danforth wrote:
- "I was not ...(1st part)<br /><br />Mr Danforth wrote:<br /><br /><b>- "I was not born in 1903 when Krste Misirkov discussed a Macedonian national identity"</b><br /><br />Many third party references regarding Misirkov, quote heavily edited and falsified passages. I would use the original material, taking into account the context and the circumstances.<br /><br />In his "Notes on South Slavic Alex Fotopoulosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-74558051286041724062010-12-19T22:41:55.240+02:002010-12-19T22:41:55.240+02:00Bruce Wayne@Danforth #2:
All their brainwashing t...Bruce Wayne@Danforth #2:<br /><br />All their brainwashing today originates from their name. You can witness it in their sites and even in their wikipedia comments.<br /><br />I will provide an example.<br /><br />The Byzantine "Macedonian" dynasty had nothign ot do with geographical Macedonia. It was an Armenian dynasty that took its name from dwelling the Thracian Theme of Macedonia.<Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-68246620736721084882010-12-19T22:40:01.303+02:002010-12-19T22:40:01.303+02:00Bruce Wayne@ Danforth:
"Macedonians consider...Bruce Wayne@ Danforth:<br /><br />"Macedonians consider “Slavomacedonian” insulting for the same reason Russians would find the term “SlavoRussian” offensive (if they were forced to use it because the UN said they could not identify themselves as Russians)."<br /><br />Prof. Danforth, the Russians DON'T HAVE TO use the term Slavorussian, BECAUSE there are no more Rus/Ruthenian Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-14168093696982046962010-12-19T20:21:28.508+02:002010-12-19T20:21:28.508+02:00To the person who identifies himself with the pseu...To the person who identifies himself with the pseudonym Menelaos:<br /><br />I do not understand your reference to depatterning. With regard to the quotation you cited: I agree Bulgarian and Macedonian are two separate languages. I object strongly to references to Greece having “stolen” or “occupied” land. I also object to unscholarly nationalistic references to continuity between Alexander the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-59402821704794929402010-12-19T17:57:52.697+02:002010-12-19T17:57:52.697+02:00Bruce Wayne @ Danforth:
"I did not use any q...Bruce Wayne @ Danforth:<br /><br />"I did not use any quotation marks in my previous response. I am happy to rephrase my statement to say that people who identified themselves as Greek Macedonians or Macedonian Greeks (Ellines kai Makedones or EllinoMakedones) and who had a Greek national identity existed in the area of Macedonia longer than people who have a Macedonian national identity. I Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-22814755843497596522010-12-19T13:50:47.298+02:002010-12-19T13:50:47.298+02:00Pr. Danforth,
Greece was convicted in 1998, becaus...Pr. Danforth,<br />Greece was convicted in 1998, because of the article 11. As I wrote, in an similar case, the same Court making a diffrent decision.<br />The Greek Supreme Court(Άρειος Πάγος) that had made the final domestic decision in Dec of 2008, based this according the Gorzelik Case. So if anyone has any opposition, he/she/they can go to the ECHRAkritashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05564034383394082659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-28623541528850462642010-12-19T00:40:09.100+02:002010-12-19T00:40:09.100+02:00In response to the person calling himself Akritas:...In response to the person calling himself Akritas: <br /><br />I do not support any law in any country that forbids any kind of academic research.<br /><br />The ECHR specifically stated that the registration of a Home of Macedonian Civilization did not present any kind of threat to the Greek state. <br /><br />In reply to someone who prefers to remain anonymous:<br /><br />I did not use any Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6818852951137515757.post-41038278827389033032010-12-18T16:33:20.874+02:002010-12-18T16:33:20.874+02:00Bruce Wayne @ Alex Fotopoulos: "This needs re...Bruce Wayne @ Alex Fotopoulos: "This needs rephrasing. I would agree that only recently they started to cultivate a unique ethnic identity, albeit with tragicomical results. But as Bulgarians and Serbs, they've been in the Balkans for centuries."<br /><br />We are saying the same thing Alex. I was quoting compactly prof Danforth's:<br /><br />"... they have had a presence Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com